Ugh - Hatred

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Ugh - Hatred

PostPosted by Railboy » Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:07 am

OK time for a rant.

I love violent entertainment without apology. Movies, games, books, whatever - if it has people stabbing and shooting and driving over each other I'll probably get a kick out of it. I'm a die-hard gore-hound.

But violence is like baker's chocolate. You can't just sit there and eat it. It has to be part of a recipe or it's just bitter and gross.

If you don't like violence in your entertainment let me offer you another way to see this: Think over your favorite movies. The main character probably felt miserable at some point, right? Maybe a loved one died, maybe their house got blown up; something bad always happens. And for a little while they showed that misery to you. If they played it serious it might have made you feel sad. If they played it for laughs it might have made you smile. But in either case you were watching someone feel miserable, and you were entertained.

Now imagine watching someone feel that way for two hours. No story surrounding them, no changes in tone or setting, just pure emotional suffering on screen for two hours. Doesn't that sound unpleasant? The point I'm making is that we watch people suffer in our entertainment all the time, but it's not the suffering itself we enjoy. We enjoy the flavor it adds to the recipe as a whole.

Same goes for violence. It's not the violence itself that I love. I love the flavors that violence can bring. It can be thrilling, funny, gross-out, scary, whatever. It's a versatile ingredient when used correctly.

With me? Good. Now. This game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrX7G-1xPLs

I want to make it clear that this doesn't bother me on a moral level. I consider games like this harmless even when they're garbage.

My issue is artistic: just how badly can you misunderstand the appeal of violence?

Pretty badly I guess. I could barely finish the trailer. It feels like someone force-feeding me a pound of baker's chocolate while shouting 'chew it! you love this flavor! chew it!' Blecch.

I don't even object to the premise: A guy hates everyone so he kills them. Okay, sure. It's dumb and it's in poor taste, but I've had fun driving over little old ladies for bonus points in Carmageddon and that's at least as bad as anything I see here. But Carmageddon was fun. It had bright colors and played everything as a joke. It made me laugh. I don't detect any humor in this trailer. I guess they wanted to play it serious? But why not really take it seriously, then? Maybe have you play someone who's clearly mentally ill. Maybe the people around you appear as horrific caricatures of their real selves and the world is all distorted by their disease. Maybe the inciting incident is that you lost your medication. Okay, I could get behind that. That might be thrilling and disturbing. Still in poor taste, but whatever.

Or if you're going to go for straight-faced over-the-top, why make the main character so threatening? Picture a scrawny wimp in place of the hulk in this traler. It's not a whole lot better, but it's an undeniable improvement, because you can at least imagine some kind of justifiable backstory in that case. Or if you must make him a superhuman, why not go with a bizarro Captain America - someone who was scrawny and bullied their whole lives, but got Super-Soldiered up and decided to kill all the bullies?

Or hey, why not work the suicide angle? Make it a spiritual thing. Maybe your goal is to amass an army in the afterlife. Maybe there's some ambiguity about whether this afterlife exists or not. Just offer me something, anything other than kill kill kill.

There are so many permutations that could improve on what I see here that it seems a miracle they picked the one permutation that fails on every level.

Maybe the actual game has some of these elements? Who knows.

But it also doesn't matter, because that wouldn't make this marketing effort any less of a stupendous miscalculation. This company very deliberately crafted this trailer to give me a feeling. They thought I would enjoy this feeling in the same way I enjoy other violent entertainment. They thought - excuse me as I stifle a giggle here - they thought I'd actually want to buy more of that feeling. What a bunch of morons.

/rant.
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Re: Ugh - Hatred

PostPosted by jam » Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:48 am

...I like Postal 2...

But really that is a lot more light hearted, and cartoonish kind of a game, I would have to agree with your points here brutal gore for the sake of brutal gore isn't fun.
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Re: Ugh - Hatred

PostPosted by Railboy » Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:04 am

...I like Postal 2...


Postal 2 was fine. It wasn't what I'd call a good game but there was a lot more going on than just violence. I can't believe I'm defending it - you could pee on corpses for god's sake! :lol: But it was after something totally different than what this trailer promises.
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Re: Ugh - Hatred

PostPosted by Mark Shaun Rushow » Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:55 am

A lot of thoughts went through my mind while watching this trailer. It does open up a conversation around the subject of mass shooters I suppose. It is in very bad taste and will probably start up the whole debate up around violence in video games. This could be the next Mortal Kombat... again. I think even for me this game could be crossing a line. it would be a longer conversation than right here to try and explain why. I'd have to actually sit down in person to try and explain my full thoughts on this game to someone.
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Re: Ugh - Hatred

PostPosted by DeDy » Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:53 am

I do not like violence. I condemn games, where the head is not in place.
Still playing the game No More Room in Hell! Why? It is a team survival (Co-op up to 8 people). The feeling of survival, there is a strong and amazing. I do not see blood. True, sometimes I have wild dreams.
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Re: Ugh - Hatred

PostPosted by RyanASpan » Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:38 am

Based on what people have been saying about the trailer, I don't think I'll deign to watch it. I agree with pretty much everything Lars said. It's an unpleasant idea done unpleasantly, with a complete and total lack of self-awareness. I hope it gets the backlash it deserves from all self-respecting gamers, and anyone who buys it should probably end up on some kind of watch list.
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Re: Ugh - Hatred

PostPosted by PoulWrist » Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:10 am

Yeah, saw that last night. As a person who loves violent movies and games, for the entertainment value you describe in the first post, I can't say I got any enjoyment out of this. It seems completely misunderstood and juvenile. Violence for the sake of violence, like those torture porn movies where the focus is on over the top violent actions (e.g. Hostel & Saw series, similar), rather than having over the top violence be results of other things, put there to accentuate that occurance. Maybe sometimes there's revelling in it, a la Troma films, but those are ridiculous, they're comedies and parodies, effects people having a laugh. Not serious attempts at storytelling and emotional involvement.

No, this game looks terrible on more than one level.

(first post btw :D hello! Been around since first finding you on kickstarter, just been happy to sit on the sidelines and wait :) )
Last edited by PoulWrist on Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ugh - Hatred

PostPosted by lambdacore » Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:11 am

Wow. I don't know what drove the developers to make such a game.
I myself see it like you, Lars. Violence is a spice or a flavour you can use in your games and/or movies. Used in the right dose it is ok and helps, but overdone the product gets unenjoyable.
In Hatred they overdid it. And even got one step beyond the line.
Here in Germany we have a board that checks every game if it is too brutal or not good for youngsters in general and most of the time they do a pretty decent job. I can not think of any possibility for this game to be released in Germany, which would also include a ban on all advertisement for this game.
Personally I see this game as dangerous, as it may inspire some people to go an a rampage IRL to experience what they "learned" in the game. It's the opposite of what a good made game should do.
With Postal I agree: It's also extremely brutal, but they took the comical path (raining cats and dogs anyone?), so it's fine with me. But games like Hatred and Manhunt - I don't think they are appropriate for the general public.

By the way, as this is my first post: You're doing a fantastic job on Frontiers, Lars. Thank you for that. I know it's hard to accomplish, but keep on, I am waiting for the game. And I like your video updates, although a bit rare, but as a one man army you do not have a PR agency at your hand - and don't need one, I can tell you. Your honest style is way better than most of the "news" the PR people for other projects and games I follow produce. *thumbs up* Oh and a small idea I just had: When you're done, don't say you're done (at least not immediately) - just share a photo of your shaved face - the ones who know, will know ;-)
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Re: Ugh - Hatred

PostPosted by Gazz » Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:36 am

Is that actually a game?
Your entire goal is to get killed while trying to kill as many random people as you can?

The Battlefield series has a better story than that and it doesn't have one.
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Re: Ugh - Hatred

PostPosted by yarnevk » Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:27 am

Why not go all the way with it and make the guy a goth loner that plays D&D and listens to heavy metal before he shoots up the school so they could get banned in a second, because I only watched a few seconds and immediately got a creepy snuff porn vibe and turned it off.
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Re: Ugh - Hatred

PostPosted by antihuman09 » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:05 am

Meh. Just looks boring. I hope it flops.

Now watch it sell a million copies.

PS: Carmageddon II: Carpocalypse Now was totally tits!
When pride is allied with hostility, all reason is denied. -Shai Hulud
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Re: Ugh - Hatred

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