Cities and Towns

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Cities and Towns

PostPosted by col03004 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:10 pm

From Lars updates it sounds like they will be doing a lot of work on the cities and towns in frontiers soon. With that being said what do you hope to see in the cities and towns of the Frontiers world? Do you want them to just be a quick stop to trade and re-supply or do you want them to be more involved? The kind of places where you could settle down open a store or buy a house. How do you envision the feel of these places? Are they happy, sad, scary, or anxious places?
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you."
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Re: Cities and Towns

PostPosted by Railboy » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:01 am

It depends on the town - some are welcoming, others not so much. Some are vast strongholds, others are tiny pit stops.

Mostly I just want them to be places to explore on a different scale. In the wild you (mostly) explore kilometers to kilometer; in cities you can explore meter to meter.
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Re: Cities and Towns

PostPosted by fai Lavet » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:27 pm

Hi,
Firstly, is there any chances that strongholds, towns and cities will have above 10 NPCs? I loved Skyrim or Oblivion, but I realy hate situations when I`m standing in the middle of the village, and some guy asking me "What are you doing, in our mighty capital?".

Another thing is restricted areas. I fall in love with Gothic 2 and 3 unlockable locations. You want to see a major? You have to earn trust. Want to go to Varant? You have to pass throw bandits. It is... disappointing, when you just like that can storm into throne room or fast travel to any city made in game without earning that. You know, what`s the point? Just see, or achive?

Finally, characters. I do not want to know that shopkeeper`s name is Geaorge, and guard is Billy. I actually can`t even know that, so why there is name instead of, "Guard", "Villager", "Bandit"? (and why bandits don`t have names?) It could be an option in dialogue to ask name but not nessesery. Will Your game be another of that, or will you increase immersion by advance PC-NPC relations?

PS: Sorry if I sounded rude, or obscure. I from Estern Europe.

PPS: Yay! My first post! :D
English is not my native language... sorry.
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Re: Cities and Towns

PostPosted by yarnevk » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:45 pm

I don't think procedural NPC generation is ready for market yet, at least as far as interacting ones rather than crowds, which Is why Skyrim towns was so small you can interact with all NPC, they all are animated for their job and they are all voice acted though many of them sound familiar!

I think voice acting has actually reduced immersion because it reduces interaction rather than increases it, when all the voice options lead to the same place and force you to play essentially same way every time, and there are fewer characters

Maybe with text acting rather than voice it can be a throwback to Morrowind style with 10 people in the tavern all with something to say, but that still has art, animation and writing costs. But I imagine Lars wishes he had even a Morrowind budget.
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Re: Cities and Towns

PostPosted by SignpostMarv » Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:20 pm

yarnevk wrote:I don't think procedural NPC generation is ready for market yet, at least as far as interacting ones rather than crowds, which Is why Skyrim towns was so small you can interact with all NPC, they all are animated for their job and they are all voice acted though many of them sound familiar!

I think voice acting has actually reduced immersion because it reduces interaction rather than increases it, when all the voice options lead to the same place and force you to play essentially same way every time, and there are fewer characters

Maybe with text acting rather than voice it can be a throwback to Morrowind style with 10 people in the tavern all with something to say, but that still has art, animation and writing costs. But I imagine Lars wishes he had even a Morrowind budget.


Have you experienced the voice acting in SWTOR ?
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Re: Cities and Towns

PostPosted by yarnevk » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:20 pm

Never been a fan of Bioware, though I have watched some DragonAge LetsPlays deciding if I want to get into that series (mostly because I saw Felicia Day was an elf in it!). Lots of voice acting with choices there, but then it becomes more of a sit back and watch the cinematic unfold. Much like the classic laserdisc game Dragon's Lair game where you could go this way or that, then it would play another animated clip from the movie, just done better in 3D. Some replay there, but then lesser NPCs have little more than greetings for you and that gets old.

Come to think of it I used the Morriwind mods to crowd the roads and towns with rolled characters, and the dialog mods to flesh out some of the lesser NPC stories, so Morrowind even needed improved. Still I am watching a Morrowind roleplay now and just the depth and complexity of the stories in dialoge and journal is what I see modern games are missing.

As long as it is not clones all standing there seeming to have problems with wolves in the woods...some background and side NPCs can help a place seem more alive if they can move around and be different every time. But not if it means dumbing down main NPC.

I think we need to get good text to speech synthesis in games but even then not sure random generated quests will ever fool you into thinking they are good writers.
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Re: Cities and Towns

PostPosted by col03004 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:47 pm

Railboy wrote:Mostly I just want them to be places to explore on a different scale. In the wild you (mostly) explore kilometers to kilometer; in cities you can explore meter to meter.


I like the idea of towns still being a part of the exploration just on a different scale. One of my complaints with the towns in the last three elder scrolls games was that the cities and towns all felt too similar. I always felt like I was meeting the same people in each town. While they put a lot in to make the architecture different in Oblivion's and Morrowind's towns I felt like that was the biggest difference. The other thing that bugged me was that no matter what you did you still were welcomed in every city in the world. If you kill someone in public you pay a fine, do some jail time and everyone in the town acts like nothing happened. That is a huge immersion breaker for me. I am glad to hear that not every place is going to welcome you with open arms.

I am also excited that from the pre-alpha videos and screenshots it looks like there is going to be a wide variety in the visual feel of the different settlements throughout the world. There is nothing worse than traveling to the wrong little settlement in Skyrim and it taking a few minutes to figure out because they all looked exactly the same.
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Re: Cities and Towns

PostPosted by yarnevk » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:14 pm

Morrowind did a much better job than Skyrim, you had ashlanders, imperials, telvanni mixed in with the different Dunmers (slave owners, warriors, etc) all in geographically diverse regions, and also represented in the capital. But it had hard coded face sets with just a change of hair and clothes, so it did look like cloned people.

Oblivion was specifically medevial europe low fantasy, with Skyrim being gritty northern europe by design of familarity. Maybe ESO will explore the more strange areas of Tamriel, and eventually other continents, but there seems to be a refocus of don't scare off console/MMO players with the unfamiliar, hopefully much as they would like to bury the tree cannibals and furries they are stuck with the more fantastical lore they created back when they could get away with it.

If this game has towns as unique as mushroom dwelling wizards, I will be happy.
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