oldschool rail shooters

You can find everything down there. Except potatoes.

oldschool rail shooters

PostPosted by gad » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:50 am

is anybody big into these? i am having trouble with newer CRT's and light guns. i got a 1080i CRT and i figured it would work since it uses the same technology. i even scaled the resolution on it, was surprised it had that ability. no luck. i am sure i can find suitable CRT eventually but it is bad! is there any project hiding in the shadows that is designing a multi-platform lightgun for multiple consoles? i see TopGun and a lot of others, but none for saturn... which is legit for import rail shooters. any info would be super appreciated.
Quod erat demonstrandum
User avatar
gad
Engineer
 
Posts: 255
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:40 pm
Location: Asheville, NC

Re: oldschool rail shooters

PostPosted by DWMagus » Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:16 am

I've noticed the problem with lightguns and newer TVs/LCDs, is that the refresh rate is too high.

Old-school arcade monitors operated at different frequencies. Then you also have their reflectivity (crt monitors do better than LCD due to the glass vs. polarizer). The same tech behind the lightgun, power glove, etc; is basically the same tech in the Wii's sensor bar.

A headache if ever I had to deal with one. Tried to recondition an old Area 51 cabinet, but gave up halfway through because I couldn't get the gun working right.
Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
User avatar
DWMagus
Explorer
 
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: Denver, CO, United States

Re: oldschool rail shooters

PostPosted by gad » Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:24 am

it has to be that i guess. it just seems strange they would change the refresh rate, i guess with the 720/1080i/p the refresh rate is different even if it is a crt tech. i wish there was a workaround or something... the few lcd/plasma light guns are only for ps2/xbox. there is a huge void in the oldschool light gun market. i will shop around but idk what i will do when good crt tvs are getting super rare. not like they are too easy to find now. sigh... sometimes i wonder if my old ways are more of a hindrance than enjoyment hehe :)
Quod erat demonstrandum
User avatar
gad
Engineer
 
Posts: 255
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:40 pm
Location: Asheville, NC

Re: oldschool rail shooters

PostPosted by SignpostMarv » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:54 pm

emulator + bluetooth + wiimote = light gun that works independently of display.
User avatar
SignpostMarv
Alchemist
Alchemist
 
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:28 pm

Re: oldschool rail shooters

PostPosted by DWMagus » Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:31 pm

Marv, that would work if it wasn't for the way the light guns actually worked.

In games like Duck Hunt, whenever you shot the gun, what we see is a screen flash.

What's really happening is that the screen changes to a complete black screen with just a white box where the ducks are. The light gun was actually a sensor and not an actual gun of any sort (such as an IR gun), and if the sensor 'saw' that white then it was a hit, if it saw the black, it was a miss.

Now, the reason why refresh rate matters is because if either frame skip is enabled, or vsync is turned off, you could get a chance where the screen that shows the white boxes will be skipped.

If the refresh rate is not native to what the game originally expected, then you can also get that frame skip. For example, a tube can operate at higher refresh rates (not the game mind you), like around ~90hz. If the game is putting frames on certain frames that are being interpolated by LCDs (or high end TVs) 60hz, then you also get an inherent frame skip.

Last, most of the earlier light guns did not have a photosensor that specifically looked for light. They had a sensor that specifically looked for the electron beam. On LCDs, you don't exactly have an electron beam.

In order for the wii-mote to work, you'd need to be able to extract that binary black/white data from the game and create a sensor overlay so that both the game and wii-mote know when they've scored a 'hit'.
Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
User avatar
DWMagus
Explorer
 
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: Denver, CO, United States

Re: oldschool rail shooters

PostPosted by SignpostMarv » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:55 am

DWMagus wrote:Marv, that would work if it wasn't for the way the light guns actually worked.

I know how light guns work :P

DWMagus wrote:In order for the wii-mote to work, you'd need to be able to extract that binary black/white data from the game and create a sensor overlay so that both the game and wii-mote know when they've scored a 'hit'.


That wouldn't work or be necessary due to how the wiimote works.

All you'd need is an emulator that uses mouse clicks to trigger shots in the game, then a stock wiimote mouse script for GlovePIE

The tech of the wiimote in this idea irrelevant, as it only serves to provide a similar form-factor- either on its own or with a first or third party accessory such as the one from Link's Crossbow Training.
Last edited by SignpostMarv on Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
SignpostMarv
Alchemist
Alchemist
 
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:28 pm

Re: oldschool rail shooters

PostPosted by DWMagus » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:05 am

SignpostMarv wrote:All you'd need is an emulator that uses mouse clicks to trigger shots in the game, then a stock wiimote mouse script for GlovePIE

The tech of the wiimote in this idea irrelevant, as it only serves to provide a similar form-factor- either on its own or with a first or third party accessory such as the one from Link's Crossbow Training.

You know, I never thought of it like that. That makes sense and is simple enough. I guess it just takes a second set of eyes to simplify things.

That's pretty slick work-around! :D
Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
User avatar
DWMagus
Explorer
 
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: Denver, CO, United States

Re: oldschool rail shooters

PostPosted by SignpostMarv » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:08 am

DWMagus wrote:
SignpostMarv wrote:All you'd need is an emulator that uses mouse clicks to trigger shots in the game, then a stock wiimote mouse script for GlovePIE

The tech of the wiimote in this idea irrelevant, as it only serves to provide a similar form-factor- either on its own or with a first or third party accessory such as the one from Link's Crossbow Training.

You know, I never thought of it like that. That makes sense and is simple enough. I guess it just takes a second set of eyes to simplify things.

That's pretty slick work-around! :D


A more complicated solution would involve a projector, an array of piezoelectric sensors and an airsoft gun :P
User avatar
SignpostMarv
Alchemist
Alchemist
 
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:28 pm

Re: oldschool rail shooters

PostPosted by gad » Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:58 am

as much as i dislike emulation.. this seems like the most versatile fix. do they make wii devices, or something else i could do this with, in the form of a gun? i don't wanna be in an episode of star trek when i'm playing house of the dead :cool: .

i have a feeling i will have two TVs for the rest of my life instead of one... ha. :biggrin:

i am anxious for a kickstarter project to resolve my issue... it seems like a common one many vintage gamers may have.
Quod erat demonstrandum
User avatar
gad
Engineer
 
Posts: 255
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:40 pm
Location: Asheville, NC

Re: oldschool rail shooters

PostPosted by HittingSingularity » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:40 am

There was a gun peripheral for the wiimote that came out in the first year of the wii actually. Ah yes, it was called the Wii Zapper.
User avatar
HittingSingularity
Pathfinder
 
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:17 am
Location: Ontario, Canada


Return to The Rabbit Hole

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests