Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

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Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by SignpostMarv » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:38 am

So this idea just occurred to me; If cooked food is better for you, would having the same meal over and over again give diminishing returns? Similarly, would your character "develop a taste" for a particular combination of ingredients in a meal and get a teeny tiny bonus buff (i.e. "Favoured Meal" in addition to "Well Fed") ?
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Re: Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by antihuman09 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:20 am

We talked about this a little in the kickstarter comments. It'd be very cool but I'm not sure whether there was a plan to implement it. It was mentioned as a possible "SERIOUS BUSINESS" addition but nothing came of it.
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Re: Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by XenoReaper » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:29 am

Sounds cool but this definitely comes across as something that would make a good mod even if it isn't in vanilla Frontiers. Interesting concept!
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Re: Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by SignpostMarv » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:55 pm

antihuman09 wrote:We talked about this a little in the kickstarter comments. It'd be very cool but I'm not sure whether there was a plan to implement it. It was mentioned as a possible "SERIOUS BUSINESS" addition but nothing came of it.


If it's not going to be a built-in feature, then I'm hoping it'd be developed as a mod; If that's the case, I think I'd like to see a mod that gives people random allergic reactions :P
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Re: Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by Paronomasia » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:42 pm

Ack no, not allergies, not to regular food. I have enough of those in real life. :shout:

Other than that, I dunno. :dunno:

Could possibly be fun if the character suddenly wants nothing but grilled leviathan sprinkled with a dash of warlock housing and... Oh, not that? Aw. :sorry:

Either that or being able to choose a favourite meal that will give them a wittle bonus (or a silly grin or something). :biggrin:
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Re: Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by Zolana » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:16 pm

It's an interesting concept, but I'm curious as how "developing a taste" would work? Are you thinking more along the lines of something you eat more often being a favourite, or would it be a food you actively set as being your favourite?
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Re: Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by SignpostMarv » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:23 pm

Zolana wrote:It's an interesting concept, but I'm curious as how "developing a taste" would work? Are you thinking more along the lines of something you eat more often being a favourite, or would it be a food you actively set as being your favourite?


I was thinking it'd have a psychological aspect to it- if you eat the same meal in happy/comfortable circumstances, you'd probably end up preferring that meal rather than something you ate in sad/harsh circumstances.

With the variety aspect, I was thinking if you kept having the same meal over and over and over again, you'd get quite bored of it (so buffs would have reduced effect/diminishing returns if buffs stack) and then if you suddenly have something quite new, you might get a bonus to it.

Put those two mechanics together and you have long-term bonuses by chaining meals in the right circumstances vs. short-term bonuses by never creating a chain of meals.
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Re: Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by Zolana » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:47 pm

SignpostMarv wrote:
Zolana wrote:It's an interesting concept, but I'm curious as how "developing a taste" would work? Are you thinking more along the lines of something you eat more often being a favourite, or would it be a food you actively set as being your favourite?


I was thinking it'd have a psychological aspect to it- if you eat the same meal in happy/comfortable circumstances, you'd probably end up preferring that meal rather than something you ate in sad/harsh circumstances.

With the variety aspect, I was thinking if you kept having the same meal over and over and over again, you'd get quite bored of it (so buffs would have reduced effect/diminishing returns if buffs stack) and then if you suddenly have something quite new, you might get a bonus to it.

Put those two mechanics together and you have long-term bonuses by chaining meals in the right circumstances vs. short-term bonuses by never creating a chain of meals.


Ah cool! Sounds pretty nifty, and would certainly add to the immersion :)
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Re: Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by DWMagus » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:13 pm

It sounds complex if anything.

Cooking and consuming meals in the right order? The best way I can think of how it could be done is to treat spices similar to the way other action RPGs treat socketable items. (Add some paprika in one 'socket' and pepper in another)

Then combine to have a 'plate' of food. You don't just eat steak. You get rice/potatoes, some bread, and possibly a salad. Anything more and that might be both too complex to code without some decent time sunk into it or too many combos to effectively find a decent combination without playing 'Meal Tycoon'.

Not against it or anything, just from what I've read so far, seems a little offputting. Unless I'm missing something and you mean something completely different? :?:
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Re: Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by SignpostMarv » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:47 pm

DWMagus wrote:It sounds complex if anything.

Cooking and consuming meals in the right order? The best way I can think of how it could be done is to treat spices similar to the way other action RPGs treat socketable items. (Add some paprika in one 'socket' and pepper in another)

Then combine to have a 'plate' of food. You don't just eat steak. You get rice/potatoes, some bread, and possibly a salad. Anything more and that might be both too complex to code without some decent time sunk into it or too many combos to effectively find a decent combination without playing 'Meal Tycoon'.

Not against it or anything, just from what I've read so far, seems a little offputting. Unless I'm missing something and you mean something completely different? :?:


I could probably write the c# for it myself :D
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Re: Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by antihuman09 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:51 pm

There would be an actual and easily perceptible state of diminishing returns from eating only one food or food type in a survival situation. Eventually the food, without the right balance, would not keep you alive. It would be an awesome addition to the game, methinks.
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Re: Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by Railboy » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:07 pm

I definitely see the appeal and I'd love to see a different game tackle 'real' nutrition. It's like a puzzle game, essentially.

In an earlier version of FRONTIERS I tried to implement some of these ideas. I didn't get too deep into different kinds of nutrition - I think there were 3 or 4 different kinds in addition to calories and hydration. You had to eat plants, 'land meat,' seafood and then there were some bonus nutrition types. But the player's body system was pretty complex. You consumed calories, then burned them at a steady rate - this was how you kept your temperature up. Moving burned calories, which released heat, and if you didn't have water in your system you could overheat because you couldn't release it via sweating. If you threw up, the calories in the food bits you'd lost would be lost too. There was a lot of detail.

Anyway, what I found was that without some kind of really detailed 'body monitor' this system was incredibly frustrating. With my own body where I can sense when I'm underfed or lethargic or whatever. With a virtual body, the only cues I had to go on was my temperature, hunger and water meters. And the interactions between these things were more confusing than I'd anticipated. The most irritating part was food and water not having an immediate effect. In my system you'd put them in a 'stomach' where they'd be slowly absorbed - more often than not this led to me dying.

So I ripped it all out and replaced it with the system we have now. But in a different game, one that's centered purely around survival and with a detailed body monitor, I could see it being pretty fun. Someone should Kickstart it! :)
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Re: Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by antihuman09 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:47 pm

It'd be cool to see cooked beef give you *slightly* less nourishment the 3rd or 4th time you ate it without any other kind of food in the mix. This effect could increase exponentially as the number increased. It would be pretty simple to implement. And awesome. Put it in the game and don't tell anybody. :twisted:

The system you developed sounds far more complex than what i had in mind. I do believe if i died being malnourished in a game like that through the Oculus Rift, i may just croak in real life. Our brains are a hell of a thing.
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Re: Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by toxiciron » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:40 am

OMG OMG OMG... When Lars said someone should make a game with a body simulation... I don't know if anyone here recognizes me but I am making the exact game Lars is talking about. A survival game with a large focus on body simulation. Oh man, I had to register solely for this reply. Up until now I've been lurking :D

Search google for "Intactilis Regnum" and my game is the one on the Cry-Dev website. As of right now, Cry Dev is down, but it'll be there when the site is back up... silly Cry people.
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Re: Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by DWMagus » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:20 pm

antihuman09 wrote:It'd be cool to see cooked beef give you *slightly* less nourishment the 3rd or 4th time you ate it without any other kind of food in the mix. This effect could increase exponentially as the number increased. It would be pretty simple to implement. And awesome. Put it in the game and don't tell anybody. :twisted:


Awwww...

But I'm one of those guys that just carries around stacks of the same food for convenience and ease of inventory management. :|
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Re: Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by toxiciron » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:30 am

I hate to be an idiot that sidesteps the actual conversation... but crydev is finally back up! Check my signature and you can see the game I was talking about! Now... to be useful for this topic...

In actuality I don't see this kinda system working for Frontiers. If Lars only wants the few bars for feedback, then I guess that's that. Of course, if he were willing to make some more HUD modules, then I could see it being okay. But then it may muddle the definition of what the gameplay really should be about. Making the player spend hours just on trying to be able to walk around without fear of death would really detract from exploring the world and discovering it's old secrets and all that jazz. The way it is now, that said, is probably about as hardcore as it should be. Without mods, of course. :D
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Re: Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by SignpostMarv » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:03 am

Any chance a forum mod could switch this into the modding forum, since it'll likely be a mod? :P
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Re: Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by Gazz » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:08 am

Might as well since it's not going to be in the vanilla game.
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Re: Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by SignpostMarv » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:33 am

thanks Gazz :)
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Re: Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by SignpostMarv » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:29 pm

Gazz wrote:Might as well since it's not going to be in the vanilla game.


I see this thread in two forums at once o_O
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Re: Variety is the spice of life & developing tastes

PostPosted by Gazz » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:34 pm

But one is a shadow and will scroll off.

Check "last post dates".
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