Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

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Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by ErekoseDM » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:42 am

i think i read on the comments that were one to want to Co-op with others everyone would have to start a new character for the co-op mode, but you would be able to hand items off to one another.

Q: will it operate similarly to Diablo 2 Co-op mode?
- in D2 your single player chars would be excluded but you could start up 'Co-op TCP/IP' characters by 'hosting' a TCP/IP game and gain a few levels before showing up to the lan party / gaming event so it wasnt the Total painful noob grind.

id like to be able to get a head start (in the Frontiers v1.0 time frame range) in the stray chance i actually end up playing a Co-op game for a few hours at some point down the line.

Q: would the tiered benfits follow through into Co-op?
ie Immortal Butterflies, Lion Tamer
- would Animal Namer effect the names everyone sees in Co-op? ^_^ could be many comedic applications in this event.

there was a fair amount of Random Map in those events as well, certain things were near one another but the configuration would be forever changing, but youd keep what was in your stash and on your person/backpack.

---
or did i misread the entire thing and your single player character would just exist in the parallel universe in Co-op-Land then return to the Single Player world afterwards.

most of these of course are going to have answers on days far off but i :geek: was pondering upon them earlier this eve.
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by Vance » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:25 am

Considering Frontiers is going to allow modding support, I think it's safe to say there will be options to either use your existing single player account or make a new player altogether depending on what server you will be on.

Handling maps the way Valve did with games like Garry's Mod and CS:Source would prove to be viable.
I'm talking about pre-streaming every single modification the server has so the player can join and experience fresh content.

Officially supporting (popular) lore-friendly modifications would help too in the long run, as there would be new additions to the base game without further tweaking.
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by bomzulu » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:03 pm

I wouldnt mind having two different chars, like in D2 .... one for single player... one for online. But if you could just copy the char over to online that would be great to :D
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by Josiah » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:06 pm

As he has stated in one of the updates, the multi-player/ co-op will be similar to Minecraft's. In that case, I'm hoping that it means that players will be allowed to join someone's server with their own character, and not necessarily just joining as "support" (like in Fable).
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by bomzulu » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:10 pm

Ya Fable co-op was poop.

I hope we can make a detected severs tho. I have so much Bandwidth and storage on my servers.... well i have unlimited server space and band. So anyone looking to host a server lets talk and get something going!

Josiah wrote:As he has stated in one of the updates, the multi-player/ co-op will be similar to Minecraft's. In that case, I'm hoping that it means that players will be allowed to join someone's server with their own character, and not necessarily just joining as "support" (like in Fable).
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by Josiah » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:49 pm

I've been talking with a server-owning friend of mine as well. As for dedicated servers, if it is run off of Unity Master Server then I believe the server will need to be Linux-run.

Then again, I don't run a server. So, I'm not entirely certain how any of it would even work. I am planning on turning my Mac Pro into one though (for this game). Anyways, Unity Master Server doesn't seem to be too overly complex to run Frontiers.
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by bomzulu » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:34 pm

If you get more info about the unity server please let me know. I would love to turn my mac/ my hosting company into a server. I pay around 84$ a year for unlimited band/space and want to use some of that to host my own server that people can join when ever.

Josiah wrote:I've been talking with a server-owning friend of mine as well. As for dedicated servers, if it is run off of Unity Master Server then I believe the server will need to be Linux-run.

Then again, I don't run a server. So, I'm not entirely certain how any of it would even work. I am planning on turning my Mac Pro into one though (for this game). Anyways, Unity Master Server doesn't seem to be too overly complex to run Frontiers.
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by Josiah » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:53 pm

Absolutely. Here's a tutorial that could be useful.
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by bomzulu » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:57 pm

Thank you so much, going to see if i can start something when all is released :D

Josiah wrote:Absolutely. Here's a tutorial that could be useful.
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by DWMagus » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:24 pm

Even though it is limited to 4-player co-op (vanilla and pre-modded), I too like the idea of a dedicated server. Having a persistent world that me and my wife can play on is awesome.
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by Bobomancer » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:37 pm

I was curious about how co-op will work as well.

In Minecraft, you basically keep your name and custom skin, but not your levels (which mean something different than usual in Minecraft) or inventory.

Frontiers will have a lot more "progress" I think. Quests completed, world events happened, etc. Running an open public server might not work so well in that environment as the world would slowly progress from the "beginning" state to the "end" state. (I think I did read a comment or feature feedback that Lars had a definite "end" in mind.)

This is actually one of the few things that Diablo III doesn't do badly. You can create a new open multiplayer game at any current or past progression point that your character has reached, and then people can drift in and out to help (or hinder) you.

I guess it kind of depends on how much progress is tied to the character and how much is tied to the world. I.e. if there are four people playing in the game world, can they each complete the quest to save the Princess from Bowser at completely different times? Or can the quest just be completed once per instance and everyone who comes along after the first person/group to finish just sees the after-effects.

If you join a new multiplayer world, is it at level one? Or do you come in with your Sword of Obliteration and all your other crafted items? What if that multiplayer world doesn't have the mod that adds the Sword of Obliteration?

Also, since social interaction isn't in as a game feature, it might also be worth thinking about what the community wants to establish as a standard for open servers like this. Will be a little weird to be on a server with other people and have no way to communicate with them.
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by DWMagus » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:19 pm

I think it really depends on the multiplayer model.

In Minecraft, the character is stored on the server. This also (usually) prevents hacking to gain an unfair advantage in levels. But then again, in Cube World, the character is stored locally, which presents the unfair advantage in levels and skills.

In Diablo 2, there were two modes of play, from what I recall. One of which was the open realm play where you could play online with a local character, or the battle.net mode which had the character stored on a central server. The central server idea is nice so that you can still level up, and the like, but I know that the infrastructure is really difficult to maintain, especially for the smaller developers.

I like both modes, as I find both have validity within the game depending on your playstyle.
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by Josiah » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:13 am

Bobo wrote:I was curious about how co-op will work as well.

In Minecraft, you basically keep your name and custom skin, but not your levels (which mean something different than usual in Minecraft) or inventory.

Frontiers will have a lot more "progress" I think. Quests completed, world events happened, etc. Running an open public server might not work so well in that environment as the world would slowly progress from the "beginning" state to the "end" state. (I think I did read a comment or feature feedback that Lars had a definite "end" in mind.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Snip


If they're on dedicated servers, those servers will be privately owned. But there's definitely potential for server admins to host more than one IP, for other players to join.
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by bomzulu » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:47 pm

Ya I think I may open a couple servers through my web hosting company. But i'm not 100% sure how to do stuff like that. So if anyone wants to get a website going for open servers and knows how, lets talk 8-)

Im a graphic/web design so I can create the site, but not great at back-end server stuff.

Also we def need a chart bar/window in co-op games.! :!: :!:



Josiah wrote:
Bobo wrote:I was curious about how co-op will work as well.

In Minecraft, you basically keep your name and custom skin, but not your levels (which mean something different than usual in Minecraft) or inventory.

Frontiers will have a lot more "progress" I think. Quests completed, world events happened, etc. Running an open public server might not work so well in that environment as the world would slowly progress from the "beginning" state to the "end" state. (I think I did read a comment or feature feedback that Lars had a definite "end" in mind.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Snip


If they're on dedicated servers, those servers will be privately owned. But there's definitely potential for server admins to host more than one IP, for other players to join.
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by Josiah » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:54 pm

bomzulu wrote:Ya I think I may open a couple servers through my web hosting company. But i'm not 100% sure how to do stuff like that. So if anyone wants to get a website going for open servers and knows how, lets talk 8-)

Im a graphic/web design so I can create the site, but not great at back-end server stuff.

Also we def need a chart bar/window in co-op games.! :!: :!:


I'm in the same arena. Design and video production by profession. I'm just now delving into game development and server administration. I figure, "Hell, why not?" A bigger portfolio is always a good thing. Like I've said, I'm keeping in contact with a server admin friend. So, I might be able to post walk-throughs, etc., in here as the game development progresses.
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by bomzulu » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:57 pm

That would be great, We can do some team work stuff if you want later down the road :D


Josiah wrote:
bomzulu wrote:Ya I think I may open a couple servers through my web hosting company. But i'm not 100% sure how to do stuff like that. So if anyone wants to get a website going for open servers and knows how, lets talk 8-)

Im a graphic/web design so I can create the site, but not great at back-end server stuff.

Also we def need a chart bar/window in co-op games.! :!: :!:


I'm in the same arena. Design and video production by profession. I'm just now delving into game development and server administration. I figure, "Hell, why not?" A bigger portfolio is always a good thing. Like I've said, I'm keeping in contact with a server admin friend. So, I might be able to post walk-throughs, etc., in here as the game development progresses.
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by DWMagus » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:59 pm

If anyone needs help on back-end setup, that's my forte. I do server administration for my day job for a fairly large organization (13,000 users, 8,500 workstations, 800 servers, 4 domains) as well as currently run a (mostly vacant now) minecraft server and a cube world server.

I just can't design worth crap. I'm the guy who thought the stuff that was on Geocities in the 90's was awesome. :lol:
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by bomzulu » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:49 pm

Thanks DW, ill def you keep you in mind when i start to create a website that has open servers. Does the server need any special requirements ?

DWMagus wrote:If anyone needs help on back-end setup, that's my forte. I do server administration for my day job for a fairly large organization (13,000 users, 8,500 workstations, 800 servers, 4 domains) as well as currently run a (mostly vacant now) minecraft server and a cube world server.

I just can't design worth crap. I'm the guy who thought the stuff that was on Geocities in the 90's was awesome. :lol:
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by DWMagus » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:36 pm

bomzulu wrote:Thanks DW, ill def you keep you in mind when i start to create a website that has open servers. Does the server need any special requirements ?


I just need to know what ports need to be opened, otherwise I can probably handle the rest.

That actually brings another question to the forefront here. What is the stance of Frontiers when it comes to hardhacking and code injections? In Cube World, the online was limited to 4 players, but we ended up doing some code magic (and software hacking) to allow for up to 255 users online.

Is that something that will be allowed here or not? (Yeah, I know if anyone should know this it should be me, but no stance has been taken one way or another)
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by bomzulu » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:16 pm

Well Personal i would love to play with more then 4 people but that is not a big deal for me.

and do you mean injection bots?

DWMagus wrote:
bomzulu wrote:Thanks DW, ill def you keep you in mind when i start to create a website that has open servers. Does the server need any special requirements ?


I just need to know what ports need to be opened, otherwise I can probably handle the rest.

That actually brings another question to the forefront here. What is the stance of Frontiers when it comes to hardhacking and code injections? In Cube World, the online was limited to 4 players, but we ended up doing some code magic (and software hacking) to allow for up to 255 users online.

Is that something that will be allowed here or not? (Yeah, I know if anyone should know this it should be me, but no stance has been taken one way or another)
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by DWMagus » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:30 pm

bomzulu wrote:Well Personal i would love to play with more then 4 people but that is not a big deal for me.

and do you mean injection bots?


No, more of a code injection. What was done in Cube World was that they made a wrapper to the executable, but injects a DLL prior to internal code execution that exposes some interfaces of the internal programs where data could be re-wrote on the fly.

After the server limit was lifted, other fixes were able to be put in place since the server was incredibly unstable. Unfortunately, because the software is still alpha, many of the fixes either won't be needed or will need to be re-wrote once it is updated.

If you're really curious, the best information I can provide you on the topic is this. It is a whitepaper describing a proof of concept on the topic.
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by Railboy » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:01 pm

i think i read on the comments that were one to want to Co-op with others everyone would have to start a new character for the co-op mode, but you would be able to hand items off to one another.


I guess it kind of depends on how much progress is tied to the character and how much is tied to the world. I.e. if there are four people playing in the game world, can they each complete the quest to save the Princess from Bowser at completely different times? Or can the quest just be completed once per instance and everyone who comes along after the first person/group to finish just sees the after-effects.


I'm not sure yet. Here's the situation.

Full disclosure: as I've said before, I'm not a multiplayer expert. Some of this may turn out to be bad practice - when I find my dedicated multiplayer programmer we'll know for sure. That said, I have worked (as an artist) on a project that implemented something similar and it went smooth as silk, so at least I'm basing this approach on first-hand knowledge.

I've got two principles that I follow religiously. Never the same code twice (NTSCT) and never the same asset twice (NTSAT).

[edit: TIL that this is called DRY, or Don't Repeat Yourself. Being both largely self-taught and obsessed with both principles and acronyms results in a lot of similar redundancies. One day I'll tell you the story of how I thought I invented object factories in college - I called them OMIHs (oh-mees)]

Now that FRONTIERS is a co-op game, NTSCT is leading me to implement single player as a multiplayer game. In essence, you will start a (closed) local server and join it as a single player. This way I won't have to split my time / effort between single player / multiplayer code. This approach will be indistinguishable from a normal single player game for players so don't worry about it mucking up your single player game.

In theory, this means other players could join a single player game in progress without starting from scratch, because it's just a multiplayer game in disguise. But I'm hedging on this point because we're miles away from actually testing that, and I don't like to say something is a 'feature' unless I've seen it working with my own two eyes, regardless of how plausible it sounds.

Player characters / profiles are also treated as a world-independent object (doubly so now that worlds are stored on the server and players are stored 'locally') so your inventory and skills and all that can be ripped out of one world and placed into another without much fuss. Again, in theory. And again, I've been hedging on that because I haven't seen it working with my own two eyes.

TL;DR: We won't know shit until we see this stuff actually working.
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by Railboy » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:36 pm

Is that something that will be allowed here or not? (Yeah, I know if anyone should know this it should be me, but no stance has been taken one way or another)


I have no real opinion about it yet. (It sounds like you know far more about this than I do, so any attempt to engage on the subject will be transparently unsophisticated.)
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Re: Co-op Mode needing a 'new character'

PostPosted by SyntaxBlitz » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:18 am

Railboy wrote:
Is that something that will be allowed here or not? (Yeah, I know if anyone should know this it should be me, but no stance has been taken one way or another)


I have no real opinion about it yet. (It sounds like you know far more about this than I do, so any attempt to engage on the subject will be transparently unsophisticated.)


It seems to me that allowing code injection would make it really easy to unlock Kickstarter exclusives. I personally don't have a problem with that, but unless the modding tools are really extensive, it sounds like without code injection, modders would need to manually recreate Kickstarter rewards if they wanted to use them ingame.
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